Sunday
Oct012006
Torture is absolutely not acceptable
Sunday, October 1, 2006 at 1:47AM
I don't typically use this forum to address current events, but I just want to be clear: The United States government is not acting in my name, nor in the name of my family. We believe that torture is never acceptable, and we're ashamed of the recent pro-torture legislation (summarized in Senate Passes Dangerous Bush Military Commissions Bill).
As shown by a long series of events, including the war in Iraq, I feel this country is rapidly slipping down a slope in which our actions are in clear contradiction with our proclaimed values. The rest of the world knows it, but apparently my government and many of my fellow Americans don't see it.
I am ashamed of our actions, and feel powerless in our direction.
Related LinksAdditionally, ThrowAwayYourTV.com has a bunch of voices speaking out against torture, including:
As shown by a long series of events, including the war in Iraq, I feel this country is rapidly slipping down a slope in which our actions are in clear contradiction with our proclaimed values. The rest of the world knows it, but apparently my government and many of my fellow Americans don't see it.
I am ashamed of our actions, and feel powerless in our direction.
Related LinksAdditionally, ThrowAwayYourTV.com has a bunch of voices speaking out against torture, including:
Reader Comments (33)
Hmmm... I don't think Pete or David read my post and we're still bandying about a LOT of unquestioned, convenient assumptions.
To address just one of these: each individual interprets even simple things differently. We need look no farther than our hometown to note the vast array of Christian sects, each with its own particular ideologies. From literal by-the-book "Focus on the Family" to Father Thomas Keating's contemplative experience of the Divine (It's not only Buddhists who meditate. And there are any number of Buddhists who take their authority not from contemplative internal sources, but - like their conventional Christian counterparts - uncritically from traditional scripture) Which Christians are "wrong"? Well, that depends on your particular persuasion. And for all we'd like to think that Jim Jones "pieced together" his religion, he stood staunchly as a Christian preacher in Indiana and won over die-hard fundamentalists with his thorough knowledge of the Bible. (Moreover, it's very problematic to imply that all those who "piece together parts of a religion" are akin to paranoid, psychotic cult-leaders.) Heck, some people even insist that Catholics aren't Christian. Hello? It seems there is a multitude of poorly educated, misguided information within our "own Judeo-Christian, American tradition" - let alone when we start focusing on others, particularly within countries with which we have great incentive to view in a biased, vilified light.
Believe me, I'm no fan of gender politics as interpreted by the Taliban. But, as I pointed out in an earlier post, has America yet been progressive enough to vote in a female President, as the Turkish, MUSLIM population already did in 1993 (OVER TEN YEARS AGO) when Tansu Ciller became Prime Minister?
I think we need to be careful about the biases of our resources and our tendency to lump countries, cultures, traditions, religions into one pot. And - even worse, then to go on to form opinions/make decisions based on such faulty information.
I think we're getting away from the point, anyway. This is about AMERICA, what AMERICA condones as fitting behavior, what we want our collective culture, politics and ethics to stand for. It's not about the cruelty any other country perpetrates. Or is it "right" to be just as brutal? To "sink to 'our enemy's' level"?
By the way, Pete's argument that begins, "Look at how they treat non-Muslims in their own countries...." has more to do with politics, and levels of cultural-psychological development than religion. How many historical examples can we find of brutal Christian intolerance? How many Catholics died at the hand of Anglican King Henry VIII? How much blood was shed by Catholic Queen Mary? Are you aware of the torture used by the Spanish Inquisition, who, as you say of Muslims, forced "conversion at the point of a sword" ? Why so many of our ancestors left the "Old World" and ventured to America, where freedom of religion was specifically, politically guaranteed by the Constitution? Are you familiar with the "Old Testament"? It has nothing to do with Christianity being a more tolerant and gentle religion.
I find this topic very interesting. I also see a lot of thought and plenty of opinion in each of these posts.
I recently listened to an interview on NPR about torturing prisoners. A couple crucial points should be stressed:
(BTW, a link to one such interview:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?
storyId=5519633)
1) The interview makes clear what we have always known: when someone is tortured, he or she says whatever they think the torturer wants to hear. Thus, information gleaned by torture is UNRELIABLE information.
2) In addition, the FBI has strongly argued that torture is NOT an effective way to gain information from a terroist. Instead, it claims it is far more effective to build a relationship with the prisoner and appeal to his/her humanity, not to his/her fear.
That said, we have always given our lives to protect our freedoms and our values. It is why many of us love our country so dearly. In the past couple years I have seen news of the U.S. setting up secret torture prisons around the world. I have had reports of the U.S. kidnapping young children and threatening to kill them if a prisoner does not talk.
Where does one go from there?
What is the current reason given for toppling Sadam?
I really can't think that anyone believes torture will end The War on Terror. Short term gains and unreliable information will do little to bring about a lasting peace.
In short, how can we stand proud as Americans if we must stoop to the same and most base tactics of a brutal dictator?
Steve, thank you very much for your comment. I happen to competely agree. Excellent points.
I found it interesting to read these comments about your posting on torture. My views have changed over the course of my life on many subjects. For example, I've moved from being pro-death penalty to anti to seeing that it might be the appropriate course of action in some cases. So it is always interesting and illuminating for me to consider other perspectives to broaden and enlighten my own.
Experts agree that if the desired outcome is reliable information, then torture doesn't work. So an important question to ask is what we will gain from implementing such a policy. Another important aspect to consider is how such a policy will impact our country, our values, and our beliefs. It is our values that have that have lead us to condone countries for human rights violations bringing the censure of the world with us and to change our punishments we deem cruel and unusual. Torture by its very definition is both cruel and unusual.
Originally in establishing a democracy and later in initiating a world oversight organization that lead to the UN, the USA has moved from a position of isolation to one of leadership in the world arena. We have often been viewed as a beacon of hope in the world and our policies serve as role models for others. Yet, we have not dealt with profiling very successfully in the past -- Native Americans, Americans of Japanese descent during WWII, and McCarthy Era ‘communists” to name a few approaches that we now look at with some level of collective embarrassment. Labeling an entire group of people as evil has proved to be an evil itself. Can we learn from our past? Or will our descendants be discomfited by what we legitimize now? Will they be able to site discourse and thoughtful deliberation leading to proactive measures or will they see reactionary immediacy and shortsighted retaliations?
Has the implementation of intensification of airport security made us more safe? Why has it taken so long and why hasn’t more information been disclosed to the citizenry about the events of 9/11? Is our government being thoughtful and effective in pursuing national security?
We must move forward in ways that ensure a safe and secure nation. We have adopted many things in the name of 9/11, some necessary and imperative while others are arbitrarily punitive, questionable, and reactionary. We have forfeited liberties to gain security. Let us hope what we do now is not in vain. Let us hope that we can correct and make adjustments to policies we implement in the name of national security. My hope is that as a country we can move with deliberate speed toward thoughtful and effective ways to deal with the world we live in; I have severe doubts that implementing a policy allowing the torture of those we brand our enemies will do that.
Wow, McKinley. Excellent points, well written. Thanks very much for your comment.
I'm in the middle of the first part of this BBC documentary: [ Power of Nightmares | http://throwawayyourtv.com/2006/07/power-of-nightmares.html ]. Watch it if you'd like to get a sense of how torture creates a *lot* more evil and hatred in the world.
Here's another great article, this one from Garrison Keillor: [ Congress shameful retreat from American values | http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0610040035oct04,0,1976195.column?coll=chi-ed_opinion_columnists-utl ].